CIBC Innovation Banking Podcast

Michael Hainsworth:

This episode was recorded in December 2019. Since then, Lightspeed listed on the New York Stock Exchange, made multiple acquisitions, and has raised hundreds of millions of dollars from institutional investors across the globe. This is the story of how it got to where it is today.

Announcer:

Today on the CIBC Innovation Banking Podcast, Lightspeed is about more than point of sale systems. The Montreal based startup is also about point of soul systems.

Dax Dasilva:

The value of creating seats at the table for different perspectives is that everybody has their own particular viewpoint, their own particular background, and we all have a different lens upon which we will see a particular challenge or circumstance. When you make sure that there's diversity amongst all of the stakeholders at a table, and you make sure that inclusion is a part of your ethos, you're going to have an issue challenged by multiple dimensions and I think you're going to come up with much richer solutions.

Announcer:

On this episode of the CIBC Innovation Banking Podcast, CEO Dax Dasilva discusses the importance of diversity and coming together for a good greater than ourselves in creating corporate success. Here is Michael Hainsworth.

Michael Hainsworth:

Dax Dasilva is an innovation economy entrepreneur, gallery owner, and author who credits his success to a diversity of voices and a spiritual connection to the planet. At 17, three years after coming out, he found himself protesting logging in British Columbia. Years later, he landed in Montreal, bootstrapping a startup software company.

Michael Hainsworth:

We met at Never Apart, a gallery and event space designed to bring people together, to discuss how to build leaders that inspire, how nature plays a role, and his book, Age Of Union: Uniting The Changemaker. We begin by talking about what he calls the four pillars of unseparation.

Dax Dasilva:

The idea behind that is how do you make change in the world? What are the things that you have to think about together, holistically, in order for us to make impact? I think those things are leadership, culture, spirituality, and nature. Leveraging all the diversity in each one of those four pillars is a recipe for changemaking.

Michael Hainsworth:

You never saw yourself as having a Type A personality? That seems to be most common in leaders.

Dax Dasilva:

Yeah, having a Type A personality's not necessarily the only type of leader that exists. There are diverse kinds of leadership. Here at Lightspeed, we see all kinds of voices, all kinds of perspectives. We really believe that having many kinds of different kinds of people around the table and different kinds of leaders adds a richness, and a wisdom and knowledge to the solutions that we come up with.

Michael Hainsworth:

What kind of type are you?

Dax Dasilva:

The type leader that I am is the kind that gives ownership to other people, supports people if they fail, but celebrates people when they're able to make an impact. I think in order to scale any kind of project, you need to be able to build that team and distribute ownership. As a leader, you need to be able to bring people together and be the glue that brings everybody onto one vision.

Michael Hainsworth:

You write about leadership diversity. What does that mean to you?

Dax Dasilva:

Leadership diversity's all about making sure that you have a place at the table for a lot of different kind of viewpoints. That's really key in having the rich solutions that you need to solve today's and the company's complex challenges.

Michael Hainsworth:

As far as leadership diversity is concerned, I see that we've got one, two, three, four, five types of leaders. What is a visionary leader?

Dax Dasilva:

A visionary leader is the kind of leader that basically lays out the grand plan for how an organization or project is going to move forward. Basically brings everybody into believing that they have a part to play in making that vision a reality.

Michael Hainsworth:

What's a coaching leader?

Dax Dasilva:

A coaching leader is the kind of person that uses technologies of mentoring and invests in people so that they can really elevate that person, really build up that person, and a true leader really creates leaders. That's one of the things I truly believe.

Michael Hainsworth:

What's an affiliative leader?

Dax Dasilva:

An affiliative leader is the kind of leader that's good at building relationships and harmonizing relationships, has great EQ, and understands what it takes to create a functioning organization.

Michael Hainsworth:

A democratic leader?

Dax Dasilva:

A democratic leader is a leader that is able to build consensus and be able to move the organization in a particular direction by getting everybody's buy-in.

Michael Hainsworth:

Pace setting leader?

Dax Dasilva:

A pace setting leader is the kind of leader that's the drumbeat of an organization, that continues to push. Whereas some of the other leaders are about bringing people together and about setting a vision, there's others that are pace setting, that make sure that an organization's able to move and produce results.

Michael Hainsworth:

So then, of all of these leaders, which one is you?

Dax Dasilva:

I think I'm a combination of some of these types. I would say that affiliative leader is one that I relate to. I think somebody that looks for consensus, and one that is able to coach and bring out the best in people, uplift and elevate.

Michael Hainsworth:

True leaders create leaders. How so?

Dax Dasilva:

I think in this age of Instagram, you have everybody that wants followers. What I think a true leader wants in any organization is true leader wants to create leadership in others. You are not looking for an organization that will blindly follow you. You're looking for people that can take on ownership and would do what you would do in their position. You're able to scale and you're able to build because you've created leadership at every level of your project.

Michael Hainsworth:

You write that it begins with listening.

Dax Dasilva:

Listening's interesting, because I believe that a lot of people think that the more you say, the louder your voice, the more people will feel that you're a leader, or believe that you're a leader that's inspiring people. And I think that when you see leaders that really, really listen and are able to synthesize the opinions of others, or able to take in all of the information and speak less, these are the most effective leaders. I think that people respect and look up to leaders that are willing and take the time to listen and understand the challenges of an organization, or understand customers, understand employees, understand stakeholders before making decisions and before making choices.

Michael Hainsworth:

Something I learned a long time ago is that sometimes the dumbest question creates the smartest answer. Let me ask you a dumb question. Explain the value in creating seats at the table for different perspectives.

Dax Dasilva:

The value of creating seats at the table for different perspectives is that everybody has their own particular viewpoint, their own particular background, and we all have a different lens upon which we will see a particular challenge or circumstance. When you make sure that there is diversity amongst all of the stakeholders at a table, and you make sure that inclusion is a part of your ethos, you're going to have an issue challenged by multiple dimensions, and I think you're going to come up with much richer solutions.

Michael Hainsworth:

Sharing ownership is described as a means of creating results oriented outcomes.

Dax Dasilva:

Sharing ownership is really necessary for an effective leader, because you can't do it all on your own. You're going to have to, as you scale your company or your project, you're going to have to give up things, even things that you love, in order to be able to move to the next level. You may have to specialize, you may have to find the thing that the company most needs from you, and so that may mean giving ownership to other people, trusting other people in your organization so that they can thrive and that you can take on things that are necessary for your own personal reinvention.

Michael Hainsworth:

So as part of that, it's important to develop a community of allies.

Dax Dasilva:

You have to develop a community of allies. You have to be a source of energy for all of the people in your organization. You need to get buy-in from everybody that you've brought into the project, on every new direction that you're embarking on.

Michael Hainsworth:

So how do leaders communicate and build energy around their vision?

Dax Dasilva:

Leaders can communicate and build energy around their vision by being the model for everybody that's involved. When you as a leader believe in something and you show passion for something, that's contagious. People often look to you for how to behave. If you walk around and you look pensive, you look worried, everybody's going to model that but when you bring passion, you bring a lot of energy, you bring a lot of drive, when you bring belief in the face of maybe a large challenge or a large project within your company, that can be really positively contagious.

Michael Hainsworth:

How did you learn that lesson?

Dax Dasilva:

I learned the lesson of being the source of energy or modeling the energy, want to create an organization by looking at great leaders and seeing how they behave, people look to you and you take their cues from how you behave. It becomes intuitive that the way you act has an impact on your organization, has an impact on the way that people behave and how they treat one another. And that you can have a real positive impact if you model the right behavior and if you show passion for what you're doing.

Michael Hainsworth:

You've written about the coming out stage of your life. Help me understand how that experience has informed everything else you've done since.

Dax Dasilva:

I came out early, at the age of 14. I think it's had a good influence on understanding all of the different places that people can come from. As a person from the community, from the LGBTQ community, you kind of see the world as an outsider. I think it helps you empathize with others and from where they come from, from other perspectives. And then finding value in other people's contributions, understanding that we're not all the same, understanding that the difference can be a teacher. These are all important lessons.

Dax Dasilva:

I do think that every leader brings their own journey into how they form projects and how ... And the imprint that they put onto projects. I do think that company culture does come from the top. The culture of Never Apart comes a lot from my experiences and from the experiences that have become leaders within these projects. So, things that I've experienced and the way that I express them does have its fingerprints on how things evolved in these projects and the greatest benefit I think that it's probably brought is making sure that everybody gets a fair shot.

Michael Hainsworth:

I like to describe you as a philosopher CEO. What do you think of that?

Dax Dasilva:

A book that I just put out, Age Of Union's got a lot of personal philosophy. A lot of that came from this space, Never Apart, and the manifesto I kind of wrote for that, the intention going into that project, this project. But also 14 years of hyper growth at Lightspeed, you kind of end up having to be a philosopher in order to go through all the ups and downs, all the different parts of the journey.

Michael Hainsworth:

The book is really a manifesto, isn't it?

Dax Dasilva:

Yeah. I think that a big reason for the book is there's lots of young people that want to start a non-profit or a tech company, and you can give them business tips on how to be successful, how to get your first investment. What about the other parts of the journey? That's what the book tries to fill in. What about the cultural aspect of the change you want to bring into the world? Or what about the spiritual aspect? Which we don't really have modern ways to talk about.

Dax Dasilva:

Ultimately, how does it all tie into nature and what kind of leader do you want to be to lead the kinds of things that need to happen in the world?

Michael Hainsworth:

There seems to be a distinct lack of spirituality in our day-to-day lives. How did you feel about incorporating that into your work life?

Dax Dasilva:

Spirituality I feel is a foundation that you need to be able to take on something that's really, really big. When you're working on a project that has a higher purpose, it's great for you to invest in yourself, to be that instrument that can help you through all the different seasons of that. I think that spirituality's as simple as knowing about the greater unity of everything and also the greater purpose of everything.

Michael Hainsworth:

You describe an age of union as one that would be a celebration of creation.

Dax Dasilva:

Yeah. I think an age of union for me, means that we actually celebrate all of the things that we have on this planet and make sure that the things that we do are more thoughtful of everything that exists here. I think that very often we care about our smaller circle, and the wider you can cast your empathy or your compassion, the more you care about other species, other ecosystems. Ultimately, people far away from you in other countries. I think these are all elements of us becoming more conscious as a society.

Michael Hainsworth:

You write that we hunger for a sense of spirituality.

Dax Dasilva:

I think in this day and age, people don't know how to access spirituality. We are in the age of the selfie, and there's nothing wrong with this moment of invidiualism because people are more empowered individually to do that much more. You can reach a huge audience on social media, you can do all of these things to invest in yourself, but there's this other element which is your spiritual element that I think we want to tap into because I think that's an inner strength that actually helps you do things that are for the greater good, for greater purpose, and just doing things for yourself is at the end of the day, becomes more empty. I think doing something that contributes something is something that we all want to do.

Michael Hainsworth:

You say as well that when you built Lightspeed, you wanted it to be as much about culture as code.

Dax Dasilva:

At Lightspeed, we like to say that the company is built around culture just as much as it is around code. Culture is something that we're all beginning to recognize is really important to have at a company, but what does it really mean? I think that when you think about how people treat each other, how people leverage all of our different experiences collectively, and utilize that in a healthy way to be able to accomplish something that none of us could do on our own, I think that's a part of culture that we can use to create something bigger than all of us.

Michael Hainsworth:

I love that Dasilva is Portuguese for forest, and throughout the book, trees, seeds, forest. A recurring metaphor, a recurring theme.

Dax Dasilva:

We probably have a lot to learn from trees. I grew up in BC, which is a place where you can see some majestic natural beauty and to be silent amongst trees, to feel connected to nature is something that when you're in a city, working at a tech startup, it's easy to lose touch with these grand cathedrals of forest groves that if you travel into the mountains or into the West Coast of Vancouver Island which I often refer to in the book, these are ancient beings that have lasted centuries, and I think we feel good when we feel more connected to forests and to these natural ecosystems.

Dax Dasilva:

The concrete jungle is an exciting place for a human being, but a true meditation of walking through a forest and enjoying nature and soaking up that natural beauty is something that I think is good for the soul.

Michael Hainsworth:

What is something that you learned very early on, at what, 17?

Dax Dasilva:

Yeah, I think that as a teenager, witnessing some of the clear cutting that was happening in British Columbia, it I think made me aware, just as many young people are being made aware of the destruction that we cause on the planet, and it makes you want to do something. It makes you want to go protest, it makes you want to expand what we care about, expand our level of compassion for living things. I think that we have this short amount of time to save some of the natural wonder that we have.

Dax Dasilva:

I think that that's something that as you build a business, as you build a project, as you build your life, we need to incorporate that more, conservation, sustainability. These things have to be built into the way that we live and the way that we work.

Michael Hainsworth:

And focus on things that are bigger than ourselves.

Dax Dasilva:

Focus on things that are bigger than ourselves, and I think that when you see a 1000 year old tree, or you see a mountain, or you see the vastness of the ocean, as impressive as we think we are as humans, these things can remind us of our small place in something that's vast. But also something that we have an impact on.

Michael Hainsworth:

You write that like a tree, we all began as a seed.

Dax Dasilva:

When you come into the world and I write about life's journey in the book, your whole form is contained in that seed. Like an intention. For example, this center, I planted a seed and there was a little manifesto I wrote. Kind of everything that's unfolded with this center, I would say everything that's unfolded with Lightspeed as well, started as this little seed. Then you watch that develop into things but they all contain that original intention of what went into it, what that purpose was. And watching that unfold is actually, it's a joy unto itself.

Michael Hainsworth:

So Never Apart has a double meaning?

Dax Dasilva:

Yeah. Never Apart, it's the name of this cultural center and the idea behind the cultural center was let's use art and music to bring together different kinds of people exhibiting in the same space, celebrating creativity in the same space, and bridge division. Bridge the natural tribalism that we have in our society, and start to enjoy each other and learn from each other. Not just through the exhibitions, but through discussions.

Dax Dasilva:

And then when we break down some of those barriers, let's never be apart, you know? I think that's what happened over time, over the four years of the center, is that people from many different communities have started to feel ownership of the center. That's the ultimate goal, is for everybody to feel like it belongs to them and it belongs to all of us collectively.

Dax Dasilva:

I think that the other meaning to it is the center was started by a number of people on the LGBTQ community, and as I just shared, the mission of Never Apart is ... There is a greater mission. It's not just an art gallery. There's a spiritual calling and trying to bring people together and for the LGBTQ community, who's often by many communities been told we're not a part of spirituality, it's a vow for us to never be apart from that mission that we I think have as well.

Michael Hainsworth:

You write that creating a better world doesn't happen overnight.

Dax Dasilva:

There's a big lack of patience in the world. It's a very instantaneous society and Lightspeed did not happen overnight. It's 14 years, we're going to go on 15 years. Never Apart happened over ... We're going to be celebrating five years next year. These things, they start as little seeds and they unfold, and you learn from them, and I couldn't have written Age Of Union if it hadn't been for the 14 years of Lightspeed and the four years of Never Apart. I wasn't ready to write that book. I wasn't ready to start Never Apart until I'd done 10 years of Lightspeed.

Dax Dasilva:

Things are not created overnight and I think you have to have the patience with projects to let them reveal themselves. That does take time and that's not because the project takes time. I think it also takes time for you to be ready for different seasons, different elements to come to the fore, different parts of your authentic self to start to materialize in a project, or in an initiative where we're free to join something.

Dax Dasilva:

There are seasons for everything and I think things don't happen instantaneously as much as we would like. Except if you're let's say a video on TikTok.

Michael Hainsworth:

What season are you, Dax Dasilva, in right now?

Dax Dasilva:

The season I would say that I'm in is one where I feel a lot of continuity between three projects that are quite different. I have Lightspeed, it's a tech company that just went public, Never Apart, a cultural center, and this book, Age Of Union. But if you look at the four pillars of Age Of Union, they're all very connected. The four pillars of Age Of Union are leadership, culture, spirituality, nature. Leadership we see a lot at Lightspeed, culture we see a lot here, and spirituality and nature are things that are core to me, and things that I want to in this stage and in this next stage, bring them all together and start to be able to talk about them holistically.

Dax Dasilva:

Because I think that we as humans love to put things into boxes and I feel like the solutions to some of our problems are to unseparate these things and start to think of them holistically. That's the stage I find myself in, is I feel like some of these things are starting to become whole.

Michael Hainsworth:

In the chapter titled Igniting Your Project, you write that you learned that not taking external investment allows a project to bake in its own identity and DNA. How so?

Dax Dasilva:

Yeah, not taking investment does allow you to build up your own DNA and your own identity. We bootstrapped at Lightspeed for the first seven years. In the time since, we've been able to take on different investors, we've been able to do seven or eight acquisitions from companies all over the world because ... And I think we've been able to be successful at that because we really know who we are. We know who we are, have a strong identity, and understand that when you have external forces like investors, or bringing in other cultures, other company cultures into your own culture, that that all is additive, and that that all can uplift and elevate the quality of your project.

Dax Dasilva:

When you bootstrap, you have more time to really know what you stand for, to really build a set of values, and build a way of operating that is uniquely your own.

Michael Hainsworth:

At what point does external investment become necessary?

Dax Dasilva:

External investment becomes necessary when you found that product market fit, when you've proved your revenue model, and you want to really build the network that's going to help this project go to the next level, and be significant.

Michael Hainsworth:

So why did you choose CIBC Innovation Banking?

Dax Dasilva:

CIBC Innovation Banking was a great partner for being able to do the kinds of things that we want to do when it comes to M&A. It's one of our strategies, a very organic growth strategy and an M&A strategy, and CIBC has been a great partner in allowing us to execute on that vision.

Dax Dasilva:

Our partnership with them is about building value through executing on some of these M&A projects, and that's exciting, that's kind of where we see us creating value over the next couple of years, and I think that that's something we really share a belief in.

Michael Hainsworth:

If there was one thing from your book that you wanted to pass on to an entrepreneurial startup leader, what would it be?

Dax Dasilva:

The one thing I would pass on to any entrepreneurial leader is to ... In order to scale what you're doing, is to share ownership with others. Build that team, but I would take it one step further. Sharing ownership with others, yes, that's one way to start to be able to scale, but invest in yourself spirituality, and share ownership that way. If you put everything on your own shoulders, and you take on the entire burden, that might feel great when you have a big success, but when you're experiencing the failures that happen every day, that's going to be really hard to do if you haven't invested in yourself as an instrument.

Dax Dasilva:

I think that sharing ownership with others is important but also having that foundation, that spiritual foundation, no matter how you come to it, everybody will have their own journey. That I think, those two things are ways that you can build something without having all of the pressure, all of the burden on you. I think it brings more joy and more purpose to what you're building.

Dax Dasilva:

Diversity's always been such a core part of our ethos at Lightspeed. The original team was all from the LGBTQ community, and as we've brought more people into the fold, as we expanded our team, we made sure that every single person had a fair shot at doing the best work of their lives, and that we always value every kind of person that joined the team. It's been a part of our success, and it's definitely a part of our DNA.

Announcer:

Learn more about the innovation economy, how to build a minimum viable product, why letting go of two thirds of your clients can pivot your startup for greater success, and how to build a global footprint by leveraging a foot in the door. Subscribe to the CIBC Innovation Banking Podcast with Michael Hainsworth at CIBC.com/innovationbanking.